Question for high school teachers! MOVED to DEBATE

[MOM2SNOX]

Gonna make a long story short...  My son was truant last year and had to go to court.  Terms of his truancy probation: attend school EVERY day. no skipping and had to maintain good grades.  Fair enough.Received a legal document in the mail Friday ordering A to appear in court on 16 Nov for violation of probation.  If he doesn't appear there would be a bench warrant for his arrest and placement in juvenile detention.  I called the school and was given the dates he skipped or missed class.  I questioned A and he swears he may have been late for a couple of classes but he's never skipped or missed any.  More digging....Monday evening I get an automated  message on the answering machine stating "Your child was absent or missed one period today."  I asked A again what was going on and he says, "Mom, I haven't missed ANY school! But...  my TV production teacher said to me today when I turned in an assignment, "Oh, YOU'RE Alex S?  I've been marking you absent because you don't look like last year's picture."  ?????????????? Yesterday morning, I called the attendance office and had the rep question the teacher.  Yes, indeed he had been marking my son absent and subsequently the accummulated absences caused a flag to appear and a letter was sent to Juvenile Superior Court indicating he had violated his probation.I'm pissed!  Even though the attendance rep said she would take care of the court order I want something done about the teacher marking my son absent!  Don't they call roll?  How do they know who's there and who isn't if the teacher doesn't even recognize his students? At the least, I'm writing a letter of complaint to the school and I want it included in his personnel jacket.  He jeopardized my son's school record and his juvenile history by falsely marking him absent.For those who are teachers, what do you recommend?  Any other suggestions? Insight? TIA!

[sweetpeas_mom]

It's the end of October and the teacher doesn't know who your son is by now??????  Kids are growing and changing so much, how can he go by last years picture and try to match it up to this years kids? Doesn't he talk to the students? Interact with them? When he calls on a student, what does he say, " Hey you?"

[tinkermama]

They way it worked in my high school ('01-'05, not that long ago) was that if you weren't in your seat by the time the teacher marked her computer, you were counted absent whether you were there or not. It's probably a computer system, that's how ours were. Our system was organized to a seating chart, that way the teacher could go down her seats, see who was in their seats, and mark them accordingly. The teacher explained in the beginning of the year that this was how it worked and if you were marked absent because you weren't in your seat, tough luck, that's your own problem. Not saying it's right, but this may be the way it works in your son's school, so check with the school or teacher before you do anything drastic. Your son might have known this and simply ignored it or didn't care, in which I think the fault would (at least partially) lie with him.But...it's already October and they still have last year's pictures? There's something wrong with that. Kids change, there's no way you can no for sure who a person is by their picture. Tell them they need to get a better system other than pictures if that's the case. So it's kind of a 50/50 at fault situation, depending on what the discussion was on the rules in the beginning of the year as far as roll.

[twinsmom1]

do what I do, go down to the school and raise hell.  If that doesn't work call the school district office and demand something be done about it.  I would be very pissed off if that happened to my son.  You better believe the teacher would know who he is when I got doe, she would also know who I was, and everyone else in my family.  She would NOT be able to forget.  I had problems of a different type with my older son when he was in grades 1-3.  The school never did anything about it and now since we have moved to another school, we are paying the price.  Good thing he is at a better school.  Sorry to hear that and hope they can clear it up.  I would make sure the teacher gave me a recorded statement or typed out statement or something that I could get notarized so you have the proof.  Or you can just call the whole class of kids as witnesses.

[MOM2SNOX]

Drafting my letter to the school right now...I've learned that the newer teachers give the children a five minute break before sending absent lists to the attendance office but the "old school" teachers (as the attendance clerk called them!) won't budge.. if the student aren't in their seat when the final bell rings, oh well... Understandable, it teaches the kids to be responsible and on time but to just mark them absent because they don't recognize them is just wrong.Still researching.... thanks for the comments and suggestions

Trish, that is horrible!!!  I can't imagine a teacher not knowing who a student is this far into the school year!  And here we are paying teachers all this money while parents have to provide tons of school supplies for their kids, because all the money is going to salaries . . . GRRRRRR!!!!  

[Art_Teacher]

That is crazy!  I learned my students by name by the end of the first week of school....there is no excuse for that!  I didn't use pictures, either.  At our school, the photos in the system are the ones they had taken at the beginning of their freshman year.  They don't change them every year, because they would have to reload all the students' photos.  However, I have never taken roll from a photo...if he was not in his seat and got marked absent to learn a lesson that would be one thing.  But, even then, I am able to call the office and let them know the student was tardy....I wouldn't just leave it at an absence. Definitely need to speak with the administrator about this teacher. Mindy.....sounds like you think teachers are overpaid...please don't let one incompetent person make you think all of us teachers are slackers.  I, for one, earn every penny I am paid and more! 

[sweetpeas_mom]

I just can't get over the fact that the teacher didn't want to, or couldn't take the time to learn the names of his students! They've been in school for atleast 2 months now! If you you're not sure who someone is, wouldn't you ask them their name, not just guess?

[TeresaB]

Oh please, don't get me started on teacher's salaries.  "all this money" --- you have got to be kidding.  Do you have any idea how much teachers make?  Do you have any idea how much teachers spend out of their pockets to have resources available in their rooms? Do you have any idea how hard it is for a teacher to help a child when the parents think that child is perfect?  Let me stop while I still can.P.S.  I am not a teacher but both my sister in laws are and I have been in their classes and observed  first hand.  Not to mention what I have heard from them.

Laura, I didn't mean to make it sound like I think all teachers are overpaid.  I think the teachers that really want to teach and care about their students deserve the pay they get.  However, there are many teachers that just are there to collect a paycheck and don't seem to care that much about the students. I am speaking just from what I've observed of the teachers here.  For instance, last year my daughter was struggling with math.  She asked the teacher if she could come in after school, or even during her lunch for extra help.  She was told if she'd been paying attention in class she wouldn't need the help.  Now, my daughter is a very good student, and is one that tells others to settle down in class and pay attention.  The teacher further told her that she leaves school at 3:30 (10 minutes after the students get out) and didn't have time for extra help.  That if she needed help perhaps her parents should hire a tutor! Now on the other hand there are teachers that go out of their way to help students.  This year I have gotten 5 emails in the evenings from her math teacher telling me what a good kid and good student Bethany is and how she's doing in the class.  That teacher deserves every dime she earns.

Theresa, I can't speak for other states, but I do know what many teachers make in Alaska.  Several of my friends are teachers and they make better than $50,000 a year.  As a parent I have a list of items a mile long that I have to provide for my daughter each year, and have since she was in kindergarten.  And for the record, I don't think my daughter is "perfect".  She's definitely got her faults. 

[Art_Teacher]

I think the issue was the gripe about paying for supplies because "all the money goes to salaries."  I think this is pretty true of any business....hospitals, department stores, garages, etc.  You cannot run a business without paying people to do the work.  However, people want to complain most about schools, because they pay taxes, so they think everything should be free.  I've got news....it costs alot of money to run a school properly, following all the state mandates, and giving kids the facilities they deserve.  When voters vote down a levy because they don't want higher taxes, schools have to go about finding other legal ways to pay for the costs.  Just because the levy fails, doesn't mean we don't need to buy supplies, fix buildings, and pay salaries.  They can't charge you for the salaries, but they can charge you for supplies...so they do.  Do some schools waste money...absolutely.  But most schools are just trying to balance the budget, because unlike the federal government, we aren't allowed to incur debt.As for being paid $50,000 a year being too much....I'm sorry, but I went to 4 years of college, plus got a Master's degree, and have been in my job for 15 years. I am required to go back for further education every 5 years for my license renewal.  I grade papers and plan lessons after school (on my own time) because the time that I am paid for is spent working with the students.  I also do work for my class on weekends, and during the summer.  Even though everyone thinks that we have all summer off, this is when alot of cleaning, planning, organizing, and even extra education for myself takes place.  I put up with those kids that nobody wants to deal with at home, try to encourage them, and help them as much as I can, even when they are ungrateful, rude, or even just plain mean.   I have paperwork out the wazoo because the state constantly adds new mandates and requirements, and I supply things for my classroom every year that there would be no money in the school's budget to buy.  I think that I should be making $50,000 (and I am), considering the cost of living, the cost of higher education, and the fact that some business people got out of college and immediately started making $30,000 a year (starting teacher's salary in my district is $22,000),  and their work is purely for profit of the company.  We are trying to educate and take care of children!  This country's prioritites are so out of whack....entertainers are paid millions, and they do not prepare anyone to survive in their future.  There are bad teachers out there, just as there are bad doctors, shifty lawyers, poor mechanics, etc.  If the argument that teachers are overpaid is to be based on the fact that some teachers are just collecting a paycheck, then pretty much everyone in every profession is overpaid....doesn't make sense, does it? Also, if I am a bad teacher, just because I don't stay after school and help a student, which I am not paid to do, then I guess I am a bad teacher.  I don't think that anyone has the right to judge that....you have no idea what that teacher has going on at home in his/her personal life.  I do this because I love working with the kids, and I often give of my free time, but I have a right to have a life outside of school, and I still deserve to get paid for the time that I am there and working. If the teacher leaves at 3:30, that is because she is contracted to work until then.  Any time that she gives after that is of her own good nature and free will.  If the school wants teachers to stay longer, then the school needs to pay and contract them for a longer day.  Some teachers are able to give more time and stay longer than others.  I know we had an English teacher who has small children.  In order to be home when they get off the school bus, she had to leave as soon as her contract day ended.  Was she a bad teacher because she couldn't stay and help students?  Or was she a good teacher and a good parent?  I think students and parents need to realize that we do the best we can with the time we have.  If they don't get it in that time, it is up to them to find the help and possibly hire the tutor. Just because we signed up to be teachers doesn't mean the school and the students own us.  (Mindy, I do think the teacher was wrong to tell your daughter that if she paid attention in class she wouldn't need help.  However, I don't believe she is a bad teacher for not staying after school or giving up her lunch.  We are human, you know?)Sorry to turn this into a debate, but that hits my hot button!Trish, I think your son was wronged and I definitely would go in to see a principal about it.  This teacher is giving others a bad name.  I can't think of any good reason why he did not know your son by name in the 2nd month of school....unless there are 100 students in that class.

[MOM2SNOX]

Very strong and valid comments have been posted so I've moved this to the debate board! Please don't feel as if by moving it someone's spoken out of turn because that would be far from the truth!Sometimes as the parent, we don't get to see the other side of the school system (our educators) and this topic can shed some insight on why teachers are in the education business and how our children are affected.  The paycheck, the willingness to teach, the desire to motivate and encourage.... all are personal choices on their part and can make a difference (both good and bad) in the academic realm and future of our kids lives!Please continue to post your suggestions as I've compiled quite the notes to bring with me when I meet with the high school administrators!

I'm sorry if I hit a nerve.  I didn't mean to do that at all.  I don't think the teachers are overpaid, but I do expect that if a student asks for help the option shouldn't have been well if you'd been paying attention you wouldn't need help.  Mostly I was just extremely irritated at the teachers lack of concern.  And, this teacher has been known to say things like that ALOT.  Oh, and that teacher did not return to teaching this year.I guess it just surprises me to have to pay for all these things because when I was a kid that wasn't the case.  And, I know that the teachers stayed after school frequently to offer extra help to students.  I think back then they were required to be there for an hour before school started and an hour after, and that allowed time for extra help.Laura, from all the posts I've seen from you through the years, I know you are a dedicated teacher and genuinely care about your students.  I just see some teachers that don't seem to care and that bugs me.Again, sorry to offend you or any other teachers out there.

[Art_Teacher]

Mindy, I know you didn't mean to hit a nerve...I have seen posts by you over the years and I know you are a caring parent who thinks logically and stands up for your child.  I totally know what you mean about "lack of concern," and I wish that I could say I don't know any teachers like that, but I do, and there are some in every district, including ours.  Like I said, I don't think the comment about your daughter not paying attention was right.  I mainly posted what I did, because I want the public to see it from both sides.  Things have definitely changed alot since we were in school! We didn't have to pay for alot of supplies either, but we also didn't have the state-mandated standardized testing or the curriculum requirements.  I think it is the state's fault that they do not think of how schools will pay for all their newly enacted mandates.  They just assume that we can keep coming up with the money. I also think the public has the right to be angry about wasteful school spending and about teachers who should not be teachers.  I wish there were some way of weeding them out, so that kids do not have to be affected.  Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much of a way to do that.  I guess I have just gotten irked by how communities want to paint us all with the same brush, so to speak.  Whenever a levy fails around here, I hear the same negative comments, and it does hurt, because I know that they are basing their opinions on the actions of a few, rather than the good works of many.  I get tired of defending my profession to the people who make the constant comments about how "it must be nice to have 3 months off and still get paid."  Some of these misinformed or ignorant people are even members of my own family and I think I go on the defensive whenever I hear/read a comment that sounds that way. 

Laura, very well put!  Through the years my daughter has had mostly awesome teachers.  We've been very lucky!  Plus, she's a good, smart kid, so no problems with teachers having to discipline an unruly child.    There are some teachers I've seen though and I wonder how on earth they got to be where they are!  Then others I admire cause they are doing something I wouldn't do in a million years no matter what you paid me! 

[TeresaB]

I know exactly why there are some teachers that are just there for the paycheck only.  We have had a shortage of teachers because of some of the things that Laura pointed out.  You don't even have to have a degree or any education to teach at the elementary schools here. You just have to pass a test.  If our teachers were more respected and paid what they deserve...maybe we wouldn't have this problem.

[yungmom]

I'm curious who was being marked present when the teacher didn't know he was your son. Or did he just figure there was a strange kid in the class with no name?

[LunchBox]

I guess the only thing you can do now is write a letter requesting the teacher follows the correct procedure & if none is in place then request that one be put in place so this doesn't happen to any other students (or to your son again). As for your son and his truancy probation, I would be telling him to go to each teacher now and announce he is present, just to make absolutely sure that they mark him so.